Dennis James was joined by compadres Milos Sarcev and Chris Cormier on Episode 232 of The Menace Podcast, along with special guest Bob Cicherillo, and the sparks soon flew in a heated debate about how competitive bodybuilding rounds are judged.
The first ever Open Division competition at the 2025 Pittsburgh Pro saw a final that was almost too close to call between Nick Walker and Derek Lunsford. A such, the athletes, judges, and fans are still dissecting the way that bodybuilding shows are judged. And, with “The Voice of Bodybuilding,” on the show, tensions soon flared over what the judges are looking for exactly. Cicherillo is not an active judge himself, but as an emcee and commentator, he has proposed his own reforms over the years and understands the judging process perhaps as much as anyone in the industry.
But it appears that the bodybuilders themselves are often confused about what is being asked of them. This was illustrated in a fiery debate when Sarcev expressed his disgruntlement over the fact that the symmetry round was phased out in the late ’90s because he felt it offered an additional chance to show the body from all angles and get a score for what he saw as an essential round.
Contrary to popular belief, Sarcev explained that the symmetry round was not only about symmetry, but it also took overall muscularity and shape into account. The confusion over what was required in the symmetry round is prevalent in the currently active rounds, it seems.
All Bodybuilding Rounds are Muscularity Rounds, Explains Bob Cicherillo
“I can only speak for myself, right now,” said host Dennis James. “I turned pro in ’98, right? And back then they still had the three guy callouts, and they still did the symmetry rounds … and I, to this day, didn’t know the info that you just gave me. I thought the symmetry round was based just off the symmetry that I have, the proportion that I bring, and I thought the posing round is for my creative posing routine and showing my body, hiding my weaknesses.”
But Cicherillo confirmed that this belief was wrong, and Sarcev piled on. “How could anybody think that (the) posing round is for posing and choreography, your dancing ability?” he asked The Menace. Still, this is a misconception held by many athletes and fans. “I never understood how Dorian (Yates) can beat Flex (Wheeler), or Shawn (Ray) in the symmetry round, even though what you just said, it still doesn’t make sense to me,” said James.
Cicherillo clarified that this can be explained by the fact that just like all other rounds, it is still about overall muscle. “They’re all muscularity rounds,” said Cicherillo, concurring that the naming of rounds, just like the posing round, seems to suggest that there is an emphasis on the pose rather than the muscle. “This was the very idea of why I went to the table with them and said, ‘look, especially with the posing round, if you’re not gonna judge the posing, don’t call it a posing round. Just call it round number three,” said the Olympia host.
But this statement had Sarcev’s blood boiling. “You again say you came with a proposal to take the posing round, who the f**** are you?” asked Sarcev, infuriated that as he sees it, “The Voice” was speaking for himself rather than the athletes. “You make it sounds like I never talked to anybody,” retorted Cicherillo. “I talked to plenty of athletes over the years,” adding that many of the most successful Olympians could not have won if they were purely judged by the labeling of the rounds.
Instead, he said that the competition was about muscularity at its core, noting that in his opinion, Nick Walker had better symmetry at the 2025 Pittsburgh Pro, and yet he lost out to Derek Lunsford in the end. “But Derek won on the better shape,” said Sarcev, suggesting that some aspects of the competition still need to be given a score for transparency. “I’m all for it,” agreed Cicherillo. “You took it out!” bellowed Sarcev. “Milos, watch your blood pressure,” pleaded James.
Some debates are destined to go on forever, it seems.
To watch the sparks fly in episode 232, where the panel discussed other aspects of judging and Nick Walker’s prospects of winning a Mr Olympia title, see below.
